I’ve written about Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother, before.
I found the book fascinating, for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was Chau’s first chapter assertion that her parenting methods were “Chinese” by title, and “immigrant” by definition. I don’t get that. I mean, I am a (sort of) first generation Canadian. My mum was born here, but my father is from Nigeria. On some archetypal level, I think I might understand the immigrant drive for their children to achieve.
Maybe. I’m not clear on how that drive is significantly different from every parent’s desire for their kids to succeed.
I did do very well in school. And I also have an intimate understanding of what it was to be a visible minority in a predominantly white community. People look at you. People pay attention to what you are doing. They talk about it. And, though I took my share of racist insults, the vast majority of my classmates and administrators were by no means cruel. Just sort of separate. In the friends but not best friends, seeing each other but not dating, helpful but not involved, sort of way.
Or maybe it was just me.
Chau’s kids were academic achievers. Homework always completed, they did the bonus questions for extra marks, and studied hard all the rest of the time. And that’s my point, I guess. She approached parenting with the expectation that her children would do well. She put them through more grueling hours of practice and revision than I would. She committed more means and time to finding good private tutors than I would. She punished them more severely for low effort than I would. But our expectations of our children’s successes are not dissimilar. Like basketball players in the inner cities, like hockey players in rural towns, they practiced a lot as an extension of community. And excelled.
My kids will do well in school. I believe that firmly. I expect that of them. We are an afterschooling home with learning resources everywhere, and education in all its forms are integral enough to be family values, around here. I have no beef with rote learning, standardized testing, or memorization. I think we need to know the information in order to interpret it, and while these methods do not give us “knowledge”, they do imbed the data from which meaningful interpretations can be made. I think that kids’ work should be graded, that poor effort should be investigated and remedied, and that competition is only harmful when tied to self-worth.
I am aware that these are not necessarily popular views. If the backlash on Chau’s book is any indicator, these are very unpopular views.
But then I think of articles I’ve read about adults in their twenties and thirties who don’t know how to be happy, and all of the books and films devoted to defining and improving “happiness”. I think of parents calling into universities to argue on behalf of their adult children, data on the dangers of “over-praising”, reports about the growth of experiential learning, pioneering research into inquiry based learning, the Waldorf and Montessori approaches to teaching young children…. And a woman overheard on a call-in radio show who believes very firmly that all children in elementary school should be protected from standardized testing, grading, competitive sports, and measurable academic achievement. I think about the free-range kids movement, and the exponential growth of Kumon and Sylvan learning centres. About a dear friend’s conclusion that “the smart kids will do well in any school”. I think about the open concept approach of our most recent “student-led teacher conference”, and the parents who had no choice but to hear how my daughter is thriving in school. (Seriously. How is that helpful to anyone?)
On some level, it feels like we’re rushing madly off in all directions. And for some of us, that means bringing at least part of our children’s formal education back home.
One final admission: My family is using Rosetta Stone to study French, while our daughter attends a French Immersion school. She loves going through the program on my computer, and is always thoroughly annoyed with me when I tell her she has to stop. We’re doing this, in large part, because we like to learn new things together. But the other part? The minor part? The less socially acceptable, teensy bit embarrassing part?
We’re doing this because there are francophone children in her classroom, and I expect her to keep up with them.
I’m skeptical that this has anything to do with my ethnic background or “immigrant status”. I haven’t yet met a parent, regardless of parenting style or doctrine, who did not want more for their children than they themselves have. Though the individual definition of “more” does vary.
What do you think? This post is scattered like my thoughts are, I know. How would you piece it all together?
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“Even if their contribution to society can’t be measured outside the grace of their love.”
Desi: This is the key and you said it (beautifully, by the way). Keep this quote somewhere where you can reread it throughout the years because it will sometimes seem very illusive, especially if one or more of the children make poor choices. My children have a grace in love to the lost and hurting that sometimes takes my breath away. That is what will judge us all in the end. Bravo!
Hi Desi. I always like to catch up on you blog and leave a timely comment, but I couldn’t handle the Bokashi bucket (Yuck!). :) Anyway, I never read the Tiger Mother book but I saw and read enough interviews to know that her process is not a “one-size-fits-all” formula. There are no formulas to rearing kids.
I agree with Carmelita. A lot has to do with timing, background, the social environment, and the kids themselves. My life is one of the most incredible stories about rising up out of the ghetto (orphan) and getting an education as one of the first wave of blacks in American to go to college. No one ever “officially” taught me to read (visited my first library at 14), no one ever read to me, and no one ever helped me with my homework (in fact, tearing up my completed homework was an act of punishment against me by my many foster parents). But I graduated 4th in my honor’s school class of 300+ (3 years after the Civil Rights Act passed), and I graduated with honors from an all-white private college. My husband graduated at the top of his class in HS and University.
My children did not have the same fire within them, regardless of the fact that they had two educated parents, learned to read early, tons of parental involvement and after school “home schooling.” They were never hungry enough. Learning never became a raison d’etre for them as it was for their father and me. They were happy “just getting by.” (It drove WW and me insane!)
Here’s what I know. We have not seen the entire scope of Tiger Mommy’s kids. I’ll chat with them at the end of their days and see what they regret. Children are their own entities and the best we can do is see fit to do the best we can. Our job as parents is not to make them sucessul, it is to make them human and, consequently, allow them to be great contributers to the world around them. But they have the ultimate gift from God which is “free will.” They will utilize it to forge that path–good or bad. My girls are finding their way at 27 and 29. It would not have been the way I would have chosen, but they have already made a more significant mark on their culture than I did on mine. ET
You always have such insightful things to say. Guess that is from all them hard knocks you got growing up. Funny how life works. :D
I’m with Shonnie. You have a gift for breaking things down to their truth, and then enhancing that truth with your wisdom.
What I want for my kids are open doors. I don’t need for them to be doctors, or lawyers or engineers. I don’t need for them to be wealthy, or scholars, or virtuosos. My hope is that by giving them a strong foundation in school, that they will have more choices – more open doors – with which to exercise their free will, to find the tools through which they can make their contributions. Even if their choice is to look at those doors and keep on walking. Even if their contribution to society can’t be measured outside the grace of their love. Without being able to know in advance how or when they will find their way, I feel like all I can do is make sure they’ve got the keys to those doors.
Okay, I’ll stop massacring that metaphor now. Also? Composting is not as gross as it seems ;) Thanks, ET. It is always so good to hear from you!
I wish I had been pushed harder as a child. I wish I had had access to more programs and enrichment. I think it’s more than just if you have a bright child, it’s what type of bright child you have.
Some bright children will do extremely well if raised “free range.” Some will not. It’s up to us as parents to study our children from the start and decipher what type of environment would best suit their needs.
Although, I’m still inclined to beat people about the head and shoulders when they insist on participation trophies. That doesn’t help anyone. Really.
It is up to us to help our kids find their best learning environment, I agree. My working hypothesis is that if we find that environment, all of the external pushing will be completely unnecessary. The kids will be so busy learning and thriving, school work won’t feel like “work” at all, and learning will be as joyful as I truly believe it should be. (I could make a comment here about unicorn sightings and rainbows shooting out of my ass, but I won’t.) Learning is supposed to be fun. Full stop. There has to be a way for us to make that possible for them, for all of the time our kids are in school.
And, yes, the beatings about the heads and shoulders? Oh, yes. If ONLY that were legal!
I think we all want the best for our children, because we think they deserve the very best.
I think learning to deal with dissapointments and loss at an early age is very important to being a healthy person. We don’t need to protect our children from loss. We need to teach them where to place defeat–in this is part of learning and nothing more than that. When we SHOW them they are not losers, but winners for trying they learn this and grow to be healthy adults.
just my thoughts …S
Yes, I agree with you absolutely on that one, Shonnie. They can’t learn how to get up, if we never let them fall. And they can’t learn the joy of a job well done if we aren’t honest with them about their successes and failures. I think that’s the danger in protecting kids from all forms of competition. It feels dishonest, to me.
It feels dishonest to me as well and it borders on the cruel side of neglect.
My dear fellow blogger, I have nominated you, in very good company if I do say so myself, for a Versatile Blogger Award. Now, I know perfectly well that some of you have previously been recognized with this particular honor, and I will not require you to follow the acceptance “rules” to the letter; frankly, on this my third receipt of this very welcome recognition it has taken me a couple of long days just to respond properly, whereas I don’t struggle quite so much to write a fresh post a day under normal circumstances.
What I would like to suggest to each of you in response to this is that instead of doing the usual, you make a post one day soon that tells us what fed your drive to express yourself in a blog and your personal flexibility and versatility. Was it in your training to try to diversify and strengthen and deepen your skills and interests, were you born curious, or was it serendipitous? Is your family or educational background particularly creative, or were you the unique artistic one in the bunch? I’m interested in our sharing what shapes us as creative beings, and I think this VBA recognition is an appropriate time to take a breath and consider it.
With my deep admiration!
Kathryn
The Bard on the Hill
Year-Struck
Not Quite Old
The Dassler Effect
Kreativ Kenyerek
Sweet Caroline’s Cooking
The Seven Hills Collection
Patridew’s Perfect World
Aspire. Motivate. Succeed.
cfbookchick
Nine Lives Studio
Daily Nibbles
dnobrienpoetry
The Valentine 4: Living Each Day
A Cup of Tea with this Crazy Nia
And here’s the link to your award conferral!
http://kiwsparks.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/highfalutin-company/
I am in good company, indeed! Thank so much, Kathryn! I’ll try to have a post put together for the weekend :-)
Look at all of those thoughtful comments and responses above!
You know, Desi, I have always thought of myself as *the least naturally competitive person on the planet*. And, I’m not kidding, your post pulled me up short: classifying myself as TLNCPOTP essentially *proves I’m competitive, doesn’t it! Now *that’s* what I call irony.
Even though your post is truly thought-provoking, I admit the outcome at this end of the conversation makes me laugh at myself! :) Who knew. Obviously you always find a way to get me going, woman!
Hahahaha! So awesome, Kathryn! I once labeled myself The Least Competitive Person in the World, meaning that I only compete with myself and not with anyone else. Both ironic and ridiculous, all things considered! :-)
It’s hard to expect perfection in your children when as a parent you have been less than perfect. We’re human, no matter what part of the planet you came from or live. I do expect my kids to have perfect report cards, not to swear in class, not to pee themselves, and be prom king/queen. Reasonable? No, except for the pee.
The first day of kindergarten I was devastated, my son did not know how to use scissors. Seriously! I had not thought to let him run around the house with a pair for fear he would hurt himself, his baby sister, or the dog. That fear, silly silly fear, came back to bite me. From that day forward it was nightly “scissor lessons”. Now we are working on writing better. I have no qualms about teaching him at home, but I don’t know what he needs to succeed.
As for the francophones in class, it may worry you now but be sure your kids get a good understanding of English. I was in French Immersion (K-9) and found out in high school that I didn’t know English, and almost flunked Language Arts! I had French stuck in my head and didn’t know what “cahier” was in English until I was 18. French Immersion was good, I learned alot, but I wish I had a stronger English background going into high school. Just my 2 cents :)
That’s a really good point. None of us is perfect, and to expect perfection from our kids is beyond unreasonable. Pushing kids hard to be perfectionists is dangerous for all of us, physically and psychologically, in my opinion. I don’t want that for them.
Where I live, though, there is a growing movement of suburban parents who feel that encouraging effort is equally dangerous. That you teaching your son to use scissors, or me teaching my son to hold a pencil, is unhealthy for them unless and until they decide to do those learn on their own or until they approach you to teach them. I wonder if so-called western Tiger parenting is a response to that – sensationally blown out of proportion, of course.
My husband had a similar experience in French Immersion school. He came into an English language highschool and was asked to write an essay and had never learned the meaning of that English word. We do English language learning at home to try to make up for that, and do a lot of translating between both languages when we’re talking our way through group activities and projects. Regardless of my expectations of my kids school successes, I still believe firmly that all parents and teachers can do is provide learning opportunities and support. Where our kids go with it can only be up to them. And sometimes that’s the scary part!
I think a comparative post between the different learning approaches would be fascinating!!!! If we move to DC, I am considering the German School- but still have much to learn about it- This is a great post and topic! And, I think I might be a hybrid: Soft Tiger Mom/ Naturist Hippie Wanna-be Dichotomous Mother. :)
:-) Thanks, C&C! The discussion here has been amazing, absolutely. I’m excited to get into my MA program so I can start venting more comparative theory!
Desi,
Interesting post. This book has come in conversation last week again…I have to get it today!
My kids are not school age yet, so I can’t really say what I or we will be like as parents. I am always teaching though, whatever the opportunity. But it isn’t for them to be better than others around them. It’s about personal fulfillment, so it might be yoga, or dance, or letters, and numbers. I spent a lot of my childhood debating whether to go towards the more practical subjects or to follow my creative side. I went through the practical side, and it might have done me some good, not sure…but now I am grateful that I have the opportunity to get into the “artsy” side of things. I think what I want to do is to be attentive enough to see what makes my children tick and help them move towards that. Whatever it might be. My dad wanted to do many things but couldn’t and hoped that his kids would. my mum wanted to dance and never did, so she got me dancing! They always talked about us surpassing them. I’m not sure what I think with my own kids, Many thoughts coming out of this post. Mind if I share it on my blog, as part of the Monday Morning Guest Post in Multicultural Mothering?
Hi Natasha! Of course, you can share. My thoughts on this subject aren’t clear, yet, either. On the one hand, I do want them to do well in school but in all areas, not just practical studies, and creativity is something we value very much. So they do have dance classes, and they do have open access to music and art materials, and I love to share their joy. Where my approach may differ from some of my contemporaries, though, is in how much effort I expect from my kids. I want them to try hard, even if it’s not their favourite thing to do, with the understanding that once they have made their best effort they can get one with the fun stuff. It seems a bit archaic, but I feel like I would be letting them down otherwise.
Thanks Desi, putting it up on my site now.
I see your point. My mum had to push me to continue with my dance lessons a few times when I almost quit. Glad she did that. On the other hand I never changed focus at uni, switched into a different program, where I could have thrived. I think the hard part is figuring out when you got to let something go, if it’s no longer coming naturally…. Similar thoughts to my comments on the last time you wrote about this book!
At my daughter’s age we can have a conversation about why we’re doing an “extra thing” or why I want her to do something again after she has done it in a hurry with minimal effort. So far, we’re all having a good time with our learning activities, and haven’t had anything to argue about. I haven’t needed to consider pushing my kids. Yet. I think I keep rolling this book around in my head because I’m not sure what I will do when (if?) those arguments begin. Do I dig in “for their own good”? I’m not sure.
Thank you for sharing this one with your readers!
Desi- I am half-korean and spent half my life in Korea amongst the children of Tiger parents. People might malign the approach, but most of my classmates went on to ivy Leagues and West Point. My parents pushed us hard- and that was the culture. That said, my kid are enrolled in Montessori programs. I do this because I want my kids to have the experience of learning concepts in an individualized and hands-on way. I see the results- in foreign language, geography and math concepts in such a short period that I know it is effective (at least for us). It was important for us that our kids have the chance to explore concepts in a different way in hopes that their problem-solving skills in later life might not be encumbered by rote memory/routine thinking. I am a product of a Tiger Mother- but I don’t think I am one (although, some might view me that way because we do tons of educational activities together)- I will say, that as a teenager in Korea, there was more than one meltdown to witness as kids buckled under the intense pressure to be perfect. I’m not sure I want that for my kids.
I could write a whole other post on Montessori versus Waldorf versus Inquiry versus Classical, but I’ll save that one for another day ;) Like you, I value independent thinking and strong problem solving skills, and approach our learning activities with that in mind. Someone once called me a “Soft Tiger Mom” and I’ll buy that, I think. I want the result – well-behaved, academically successful kids – without subjecting my kids to anywhere near that kind of pressure, and without bringing that negativity into my home. Learning and discovery are supposed to be fun, in my opinion. Maybe you’re a Soft Tiger, too?
wow, i am going to have to think about this, and maybe read the book!! great post though.. c
Thanks, C. I’m not finished thinking about it, that’s for sure. It’s one of those concepts that have more than one clear solution, I think.
Desi – I think it’s different being ethnic. I have had this conversation countless times with friends of all ethnic backgrounds and here’s what I think it boils down to: how do we keep our kids hungry? Hungry for achievement in life. That’s what our parents did, and I don’t even think that they did it intentionally.
There is something about your parents having come to Canada not speaking the language, with little money, enduring racism, whatever education they did earn had no value here. Their first jobs were often menial and they went to school in the evening to get some kind of diploma or accreditation. Even as a small child I got that, that they sacrificed everything so that we could get a better opportunity. And it played in every part of our lives. They never expressed any type of expectation – it was implied. My brothers and I made honour roll every semester and we did not ever receive praise or reward. We were probably a bit scared to find out what would happen if we didn’t. If I got 98% my dad would ask what happened to the other 2%. In University I briefly contemplated pursuing sociology, until I mentioned it at home. ‘We did not come to this country so you could study and then not get a job.’ My husband had a very similar growing up. There were only 3 acceptable careers he could have pursued, doctor, lawyer or engineer. We did not ever get grounded, our parents thought that was strange punishment reserved for white people. Nope, we got spanked. My dad used a belt, my friend’s dad’s used a cane, a wooden spoon, who knows what else. You know why people find Russell Peters so funny? Because it’s true, ‘somebody gonna get hurt real bad’. Our growing up was strict.
So now we have kids and how do we raise them? How do we keep them hungry? We’ve been successful-ish and have used that success to buy nice things. So they are not seeing us sacrifice. Our parents, who couldn’t give us much, give the grandkids whatever they want. That is not helping either. We think about this A LOT. And we are not yet at school age. A really good friend asked me once, what would I do if one of my children wants to be an artist, am I going to be ok with that? I don’t know. This may sounds terrible and unenlightened, but I would rather they do something practical. I have high expectations, I will encourage them to learn multiple languages, spanish at the least, but I strongly encourage Mandarin given the shift in world power. And I’m already planning to send them to live with my cousins in Montreal for a summer or two to learn French. Oh and of course I would also love them be well rounded, with strong academics and some outside passion outside of school. Poor kids, they have no idea. But unlike my parents, I will let them go to sleepovers and bday parties and have fun some times. :P
Oh, I know exactly what you mean about the hunger! My mum was strict with me, and though I did get grounded a few times, I took my share of spankings. I don’t think I ever was told with words that I was expected to do well in school. I just knew. And I don’t think there was anything I feared more than disappointing my family.
Of course, when I graduated high school I rebelled by both refusing to go to university right away, and then refusing some of the scholarships offered. Dumb move, there. My hope is that my kids will value education and learning enough that their hunger will come from within. Successful and happy, artistic and driven, productive and fulfilled. We don’t ask much, do we? :P
Timing is everything, I think. I was just talking to someone the other day about Chau’s book, and although I haven’t read it yet (and not sure that I will…), reading your post seems quite appropriate for me today. My kids are younger than yours so we’re not “there” yet with expectations in school (or whatever else). I think there has to be balance, especially with your children. As good parents, we do what we believe is best for them, but to force them to excel at something doesn’t seem natural. My opinion…
I am really loving your blog, and I would like to pass on the Liebster Blog Award. I hope you accept. :) Read about it here… http://pamelazimmer.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/feeling-the-love-another-liebster-blog-award/
I agree that there has to be balance, and I don’t think kids (or anyone else for that matter) can be forced to excel – especially if academic success is couched in the kind of uber-disciplinarian pressure Chau writes about. Eventually, the resentment between the parent and the child builds to the point that their relationship is irreparably damaged (which ultimately made Chau rethink her parenting strategy). I don’t want that. I don’t insult my kids, I don’t use corporal punishment, I don’t reward them with galas and expensive gifts and would never even consider doing any of those things. But I do expect them to do their homework well. I expect them to study for exams and make their best effort in their classrooms. I believe that they have it in them to excel academically, and so I approach our learning activities from that direction.
It isn’t natural or healthy to push our kids, I agree. We’ve never been about the push here, regardless of my expectation. And your point about timing is so valid. My job is to make sure the learning opportunities are there, when they’re ready. The rest is up to them.
Thanks so much for the link love, and for the award! I look forward to posting about it!
Kids meet expectations, either on purpose or accident. Always the black sheep, I think my mother would have been shocked if I graduated high school. My littlest sister, my dad boasting her having gotten his book smarts, graduated college with a BA in art history. I can’t really speak for the ethnicity aspects of your post, mostly because I feel like I grew up completely without a culture, and so as an adult I’ve adopted others. Of course, it’d be interesting to write a post about a southern white woman living in and loving Indian culture, Hinduism and their gods, even as the religion asserts that there is no conversion (you’re either born that way or not). PS I wish someone had made me learn French, I’m just saying ;)
I see that in my family, too. My mum always raved about how smart I was, how well I did in school, and I don’t think that served my brother and sister very well. No one wants to live in anyone else’s shadow, even when that shadow is cast by someone you love.
That would be an interesting post! If you haven’t already, you might want to check out Tim Ward’s books. “What the Buddha Never Taught” is one of my all-time favourites, closely followed by “The Great Dragon’s Fleas”. (And I wish my mum had made me show up for my piano lessons – hahahaha!)